No Sentencing while in the Most Holy Place.

Questions and conversation about religious beliefs, Scripture, the Spirit of Prophecy, and Creation 7th Day Adventism
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X-Calibre
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No Sentencing while in the Most Holy Place.

Postby X-Calibre » June 4th, 2012, 8:30 am

One of the key tenets of CSDA beliefs is that God has pronounced Judgement upon the SDA Church. One of the ways they illustrate this is that the SDA Church has been "weighed" and "found wanting", appealing to Ellen White in the context of Sanctuary/Judgement language.

The problem with this, is that there is nothing in the types of judgement in connection with the Day of Atonement to suggest that there is any disconnected passing of judgement or sentencing until the High Priest is finished with the Most Holy Place ministry. That is, the work that is being undertaking in the Inner Apartment is still a part of the Mediatorial role. It is only after the High Priest leaves and dons the Breastplate of Judgement that such Judgements as are determined from within the Most Holy Place are passed out and sentencing is performed.

Thus there is no indication that God would pass judgement on individuals or WHILE the antitypical Day of Atonement is still in process and the High Priest remains within the Holy of Holies. If the SDA Church is "weighed" and "found wanting", such a sentence will only be handed out at the time following the Close of Probation.

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Lucan
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Re: No Sentencing while in the Most Holy Place.

Postby Lucan » June 4th, 2012, 9:59 am

Hello,

I am sorry that you seem to have taken up the notion that our forum is a place to speak about us in the third person as though we were not present and proclaim your views about our doctrines, rather than open and honest discussion with us about our doctrines. While such an attitude is not against any rules per se, the spirit is easily enough discerned.

That said, I am not in agreement with what I am understanding of your view of Christ's work in the Most Holy. You appear to be saying that His work in the Most Holy - during the Investigative Judgment - Is not an act of judgment at all, but of mediation only.

Since you seem to be Adventist, I foresee no issue with appealing to certain passages of Ellen White's writings to clarify this matter:

"As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God’s remembrance." [GC 483]

As for our teaching that the SDA Church has closed its probation, this is speaking to the organization, not the individuals therein. A cursory understanding of the end of the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel and the Shut Door vision is sufficient to demonstrate both what is meant by this, and what the precedent is for such a declaration. Since we know that certain churches closed their probation before 1844, it would appear you are suggesting that 1844 put a stop to this process. I cannot conceive that the "investigative judgment" means the exact opposite and is rather the cessation of judgment.
- Lucan Chartier

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X-Calibre
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Re: No Sentencing while in the Most Holy Place.

Postby X-Calibre » June 4th, 2012, 10:28 am

I am not saying that there is no judgement going on at present. I am saying that there is no sentencing going on. At this time, the Advocate, the High Priest, is IN the Most Holy Place. While examining the books, regarding both individuals and organisations, the sentence is not being passed down until He leaves that phase of ministry, which includes mediation.

God intended that these great leaders of His people should be representatives of Christ. Aaron bore the names of Israel upon his breast. He communicated to the people the will of God. He entered the most holy place on the Day of Atonement, "not without blood," as a mediator for all Israel. He came forth from that work to bless the congregation, as Christ will come forth to bless His waiting people when His work of atonement in their behalf shall be ended. (PP, p. 426)


"And, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away." Daniel 7:13, 14. The coming of Christ here described is not His second coming to the earth. He comes to the Ancient of Days in heaven to receive dominion and glory and a kingdom, which will be given Him at the close of His work as a mediator. It is this coming, and not His second advent to the earth, that was foretold in prophecy to take place at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844. Attended by heavenly angels, our great High Priest enters the holy of holies and there appears in the presence of God to engage in the last acts of His ministration in behalf of man--to perform the work of investigative judgment and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits. {GC 479.3}


Let me state another way what my first post intended. There is nothing in any type to show that while an investigative phase of judgement is underway, or while the High Priest is in the Most Holy Place, that there is an intermediate sentencing of individuals or organisations before the investigation is finished!

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Lucan
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Re: No Sentencing while in the Most Holy Place.

Postby Lucan » June 4th, 2012, 10:51 am

I understand what you are saying; I simply do not see it in the Scriptures or the writings. They clearly state that both names and sins are being blotted out in the work of the Investigative Judgment. Sins being blotted out is the work of mediation, which was described in the quotes you provided; names being blotted out is the work of judgment, or "sentencing" as you are calling it, which was described in the quote I provided. These are not contradictory; they are simply simultaneous.

Again, there is no indication that Christ somehow stopped the already established principle of church organizations closing their probation. Much less is there indication that He stopped it for the very reason of performing a judgment. If you have such a reference, I would be interested to examine it. As it stands, I understand you to be saying "Yes, churches closed their probation before 1844, but now that there's a judgment happening, they can't do it anymore." I do not see that based anywhere in Inspiration.
- Lucan Chartier


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