This post is not to stir up contention. This is genuine concern.
Mrs. White did tell some, from my reading, that they would be alive at the second coming. How does CSDA reconcile this?
Second, William Miller was a Freemason.
I have just escaped (spiritually, not physically, as I was never in physical space with the group) a highly occultic mk-ultra type group that is most definitely a product of freemasonic influence. I'm on high alert. I hope you understand.
I was granted a moment of divine grace that showed me Yahshua at the center no matter what and my heart cried mightily that if I were to deny that fact even ONE more time I will have grieved the Holy Spirit. The investigative judgment was made real to me. I know I have read inspired words in Mrs. White's books, but these are my current snares as I attempt to understand what church means and should be.
All I know is that union with the civil power has been revealed as pure abomination to God at this time. My only direction from the Holy Spirit thus far has been to find a "free" church. How very intriguing tht the term free Adventist already exists! How glad I am that I found SDA's that truly understand "engraven" paper images.
E.G.W. false prophecies and freemasonry
- Pastor Chick
- Posts: 80
- Joined: May 28th, 2012, 3:03 pm
- Location: Kisoro - Uganda
- Contact:
Re: E.G.W. false prophecies and freemasonry
Hello again Todd,
Thank you for your continued dialogue and interest in truth.
Let us deal with William Miller first. This is the information found on the neutral Wikipedia site.
As for the "false prophecy" from Ellen White, we must realize that every "prophecy" except "time prophecies" are conditional. We have written on the topic of conditional prophecy, and if you are interested in reading about that, please email Br. David Aguilar at flyingcreature@hotmail.com.
The particular quote that you refer to in this thread is this one.
I tend to classify this one as a "conditional prophecy." However, there may be a "technical application" that can fit. I found a booklet at Andrews University years ago that was written by J. N. Loughborough. According to Wikipedia, "John Norton Loughborough was an early Seventh-day Adventist minister. Loughborough was involved in the Seventh-day Adventist movement from its early days, having been called to preach by Ellen White in 1852."
In that booklet, he tells how he once asked Ellen White if all of the 144,000 would live to see [Jesus] come. Her answer was that all who die in the sealing message of the three angels will be resurrected to be with the 144,000 and then be "translated" with them. In terms of the "false prophecy," it must be understood that Ellen White would not have been given any vision that tended to discouragement. She thought (and others believed) that Christ would come in their life-time. Paul, the Apostle, also thought Christ would return in his life-time. "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thess. 4:17)
My point is that the vision given to her was focused on character and not so much the event. Those who would "qualify" for meeting Christ at His coming without seeing death were there at the conference, but as Christ's coming was delayed, they were laid to rest until the "special resurrection" that occurs at the 6th plague. All who were laid to rest in this way were awaiting their time. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." (Rev. 14:13)
I hope my apology satisfies.
Thank you for your continued dialogue and interest in truth.
Let us deal with William Miller first. This is the information found on the neutral Wikipedia site.
Miller was an active Freemason until 1831.[17][18][19] Miller resigned his Masonic membership in 1831, stating that he did so to "avoid fellowship with any practice that may be incompatible with the word of God among masons".[20] By 1833 he wrote in a letter to his friends to treat Freemasonry "as they would any other evil".[21]
As for the "false prophecy" from Ellen White, we must realize that every "prophecy" except "time prophecies" are conditional. We have written on the topic of conditional prophecy, and if you are interested in reading about that, please email Br. David Aguilar at flyingcreature@hotmail.com.
The particular quote that you refer to in this thread is this one.
At the conference a very solemn vision was given me. I saw that some of those present would be food for worms, some subjects for the seven last plagues, and some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death.
I tend to classify this one as a "conditional prophecy." However, there may be a "technical application" that can fit. I found a booklet at Andrews University years ago that was written by J. N. Loughborough. According to Wikipedia, "John Norton Loughborough was an early Seventh-day Adventist minister. Loughborough was involved in the Seventh-day Adventist movement from its early days, having been called to preach by Ellen White in 1852."
In that booklet, he tells how he once asked Ellen White if all of the 144,000 would live to see [Jesus] come. Her answer was that all who die in the sealing message of the three angels will be resurrected to be with the 144,000 and then be "translated" with them. In terms of the "false prophecy," it must be understood that Ellen White would not have been given any vision that tended to discouragement. She thought (and others believed) that Christ would come in their life-time. Paul, the Apostle, also thought Christ would return in his life-time. "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thess. 4:17)
My point is that the vision given to her was focused on character and not so much the event. Those who would "qualify" for meeting Christ at His coming without seeing death were there at the conference, but as Christ's coming was delayed, they were laid to rest until the "special resurrection" that occurs at the 6th plague. All who were laid to rest in this way were awaiting their time. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." (Rev. 14:13)
I hope my apology satisfies.
Pastor Chick McGill
http://adventistry.to/CSDARPU/
http://adventistry.to/CSDARPU/
Re: E.G.W. false prophecies and freemasonry
Hello Todd,
You might find the following explanation given by Mrs. White herself useful:
You might find the following explanation given by Mrs. White herself useful:
Ellen G. White, 1SM 66-69 wrote:"A statement published in 1851 in Experience and Views, and found on page 49 [page 58, present edition] of Early Writings is quoted as proving my testimonies false: “I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished, and that time can last but a very little longer.”
As the subject was presented before me, the period of Christ’s ministration seemed almost accomplished. Am I accused of falsehood because time has continued longer than my testimony seemed to indicate? How is it with the testimonies of Christ and His disciples? Were they deceived?
Paul writes to the Corinthians:
“But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; and they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not” (1 Corinthians 7:29, 30).
Again, in his epistle to the Romans, he says:
“The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light” (Romans 13:12).
And from Patmos, Christ speaks to us by the beloved John:
“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand” (Revelation 1:3). “The Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly; blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book” (Revelation 22:6, 7).
The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and threatenings of God are alike conditional.
God had committed to His people a work to be accomplished on earth. The third angel’s message was to be given, the minds of believers were to be directed to the heavenly sanctuary, where Christ had entered to make atonement for His people. The Sabbath reform was to be carried forward. The breach in the law of God must be made up. The message must be proclaimed with a loud voice, that all the inhabitants of earth might receive the warning. The people of God must purify their souls through obedience to the truth, and be prepared to stand without fault before Him at His coming.
Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith, and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward.
But in the period of doubt and uncertainty that followed the disappointment, many of the advent believers yielded their faith. Dissensions and divisions came in. The majority opposed with voice and pen the few who, following in the providence of God, received the Sabbath reform and began to proclaim the third angel’s message. Many who should have devoted their time and talents to the one purpose of sounding warning to the world, were absorbed in opposing the Sabbath truth, and in turn, the labor of its advocates was necessarily spent in answering these opponents and defending the truth. Thus the work was hindered, and the world was left in darkness. Had the whole Adventist body united upon the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, how widely different would have been our history!
It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness. He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, happy people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in “because of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:19). Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them.
For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord’s professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years.
There are two other passages said to be found in my first book, but not given in my later writings. Concerning these I shall only say, when I can obtain a book containing them, so that I can be assured of the correctness of the quotations and can see for myself their connection, I shall be prepared to speak understandingly in regard to them."
- Lucan Chartier
Re: E.G.W. false prophecies and freemasonry
Sorry Pastor Chick, I needed something more comprehensive. Amazing Discoveries directed my attention to this link http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers ... ideo-1.htm
Perhaps you will find it suited for your quiver.
Lucan, what Mrs. White seems to be saying is that it is up to us to bring completion of prophecy.
Perhaps you will find it suited for your quiver.
Lucan, what Mrs. White seems to be saying is that it is up to us to bring completion of prophecy.
- Pastor Chick
- Posts: 80
- Joined: May 28th, 2012, 3:03 pm
- Location: Kisoro - Uganda
- Contact:
Re: E.G.W. false prophecies and freemasonry
Todd, it appears you have discovered a "comprehensive" resource. I have neither time nor energy to spend plowing through the multitude of links. When YAHWEH gives me answers that satisfy me, I need not seek other sources. You see, I am pleased with Ellen White's gift, and I do not normally undertake to defend her -- really almost never have the occasion.
FYI, I came across a book in the Baylor University library years ago which was a "comprehensive" attack on the Bible. I began to look through it curiously, and then I realized that Satan was sifting me. I knew I had no mind to counter-debate this source. I returned the book to its place in the stacks and remained pleased to know YAHWEH and His Son having benefited from everlasting life.
So, I have no "quiver" for these kinds of topics -- I just listen to the voice of Almighty God and rest in His care. I have tasted the Heavenly Gift and am satisfied.![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
FYI, I came across a book in the Baylor University library years ago which was a "comprehensive" attack on the Bible. I began to look through it curiously, and then I realized that Satan was sifting me. I knew I had no mind to counter-debate this source. I returned the book to its place in the stacks and remained pleased to know YAHWEH and His Son having benefited from everlasting life.
So, I have no "quiver" for these kinds of topics -- I just listen to the voice of Almighty God and rest in His care. I have tasted the Heavenly Gift and am satisfied.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Pastor Chick McGill
http://adventistry.to/CSDARPU/
http://adventistry.to/CSDARPU/
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