5-3-13 Brother Abe Report from Kenya

[Adriel]

Zahakiel : Since Bro. Abraham has agreed to give us a report of the recent meetings in Africa, he will be leading the meeting tonight (with Sis. Barb as his typist, I think), so I will offer the opening prayer

Let us pray. Blessed and loving Father in Heaven, we come before you this day with thanksgiving. We thank you for the week of work, during which we have been able to honor you with our labors, and we thank you for the day of rest, in which we come together in rejoicing and worship. We ask that your Spirit be with us as Comforter and Guide, and that you pour your blessings out upon your people, as we serve in your name. Bless the meeting tonight, and may we all receive instruction, and encouragement, from what we share together as a family. We ask this in the name of your dear Son, Yahshua. Amen.

Barbli : Amen
Guest_Peter_Jr_1516 : Amen.
Guest_Peter : Amen
Adriel : Amen
Guest_greenhorizon : Amen
Guest_Abraham : Amen
Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Amen
Guest_eagle : Amen.
Elyna : Amen.
Naraiel31 : Amen
Zahakiel : Please begin when you are ready.
Guest_Gadriel : Amen, Amen.

Barbli : Abe: The following is an account of the meetings in Kenya: I began my visit to Kenya on the 11th of April fully expecting to visit two groups in Kenya. The one group is in Kisii and the other is in Nairobi. The Nairobi trip failed to materialize as will be noted later. I picked up my expected translator (English to Kiswahili; Kiswahili to English). I soon discovered that he did not understand enough Kiswahili to even communicate in the Kiswahili language himself; but which he vigorously had affirmed “I can”. When we arrived at the Kisii bus stage and after about 15-20 minutes of attempted phone contact, Isayah, our Kenyan contact person spotted us. He was with another man, John, a registered security person. They had been waiting for us at the stage since morning. Note: If anyone along the way has a comment or question, feel free to express. Please say when you are finished reading.

Adriel : done
Guest_Peter_Jr_1516 : Finished.
Guest_greenhorizon : done
Zahakiel : Done
Guest_Peter : D.
Elyna : Finished.

Barbli : I thought Kisii was our final destination, but soon learned we had another approximate 1 hour trip ahead of us. We arrived in Etono, our first leg destination somewhat after nightfall Friday. The welcome was very cordial and very happily carried forward by the entire family. The hospitality was beyond expectation. Isayah had rented a house for us to stay in during our stay with new mattresses and sheets for the beds and we never paid any bills. Sabbath morning was our first meeting arranged in the usual SDA format, except that here the people did not follow the usually much promoted offering ritual. Pastor Samuel welcomed me to the “pulpit” (a bare earth place in front of a rough wooden bench) as Pastor Abraham from the Creation SDA Church in Canada. The sermon title was “The Everlasting Gospel” taken from Rev. 14:6. This is the gospel theme from everlasting to everlasting. Yah’s plan for Jn. 3:16 opens from eternity to eternity (Zech. 6:13, Titus 1:2, Eph. 1:4, 1 Peter 1:19, 20) and will be our study throughout eternity (Rev. 22:1-5, 14). The victory over sin is as everlasting as the one who gave it.

Adriel : D.
The sermon was well received by both the pastor and the head of the head elders. (Just a brief explanation: the pastor is responsible for 15 churches and the head elder is the one that travels from church to church tending to the flocks arranging meeting with the local elders).
Elyna : Finished.

Both Pastor Samuel and the First Elder Isayah claim victory over all sin. And Isayah later informed me that I would not have been allowed to speak if the pastor had not been a believer. Later, Sunday morning, when Pastor Samuel, Elder Isayah, and I met for several hours, they confided in me that they knew that “the leadership of” the SDA church was all wrong. In the course of our conversation, I asked the pastor if he knew about the 1888 papers of EGW. He told me he had them. He then asked me about the time of Jacob’s trouble, “did I think we were about to enter the time of Jacob’s trouble?” and I said to him that I thought we were beginning the time of Jacob’s trouble. However, later I thought about this and realized I had made a mistake. We are in the “little time of trouble”. As we continued our discussion, he, the pastor, realized that the leadership had rejected Christ in the rejection of the messengers, Jones and Waggoner. I then opened up to them the parallel of the current leadership’s rejection of the present truth. The present day situation of SDA leadership’s persecution of the CSDA Church, that by force of the state are putting Creation SDA people in jail. They were very surprised to hear this, though they knew that the leadership now is not standing right. The pastor was also familiar with conditional prophecy and understood the impact this can have on SDA understanding of the Sunday law. The pastor had to leave. He is studying for his master’s thesis though I do not recall his topic. In discussing with Isayah further, he told me that he is well received in the churches; and his plan was to speak to as many members as he could in the next few months and then invite me back to speak to the people. He strongly suggested that we must move carefully, being as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves, and not to speak to the people too soon with the warning to come out. There have been other groups that have come and the first thing they told the people is that they must come out and the people scatter and they will not listen. We first must build a careful foundation and show the Bible reasons. I think there is common sense here. We MUST present the three angels in order revealing current conditions coupled with current applications where the same course of action by the church now brings about the same results as formerly in the ecclesiastical community. Just a further note – Isayah said that it will take some time to visit all 15 churches; but when he has done this, perhaps after some months, he would like for me or another member of our group to come and share with the whole church body our message. Next morning we were leaving for Nairobi and had reached Kisii when Isayah suggested that we call the people in Nairobi. I agreed with this and Isayah called the Nairobi people. He was not able to speak with them in the vernacular. It became apparent that the people in Nairobi were not ready or willing to receive us that day. I took the phone to speak to the lady at the other end. She also told me that they were not ready to receive us and seemed quite annoyed that we were planning to come that day. I was under the impression that we were in fact, one day late. As she continued firm in her thoughts, I said to her, “look, its okay if you don’t want us to come we won’t come.” We had already paid the taxi bus, but were able to recover our money and return to Etono. When back in Etono, we went to visit Bro. Isayah’s parents at the little home. They were overjoyed to receive us. First Isayah’s mother greeted me very warmly and raised her hands to Heaven in thanks to God repeatedly for my coming.
Guest_Gadriel : Amen
Then when her husband was called in from the field (they had both attended the Sabbath meeting), he hugged me and slapped my back and arms and moved his head from one side of my head to the other, and also raised his hands to Heaven repeatedly in thanks to God. Without exaggeration, he continued these expressions of joy and thanks for a full five minutes, after which we had to share their food. As Isayah shared with me later, this was not just because of me and the message I shared, but also because he had had a good experience with whites before many years ago. After this was done and we had talked for perhaps 1-1/2 hours, we returned to Isayah’s house to start our trip back to Uganda. Note: "We HAD to share their food" is in their expression - not meaning that I did not want to. The food was actually excellent. If anyone has any comments or questions about my trip to Kenya, please do.
Elyna : Q

Barbli : Go ahead

Elyna : Is the Pastor Samuel responsible of all 15 churches there?

Barbli : yes, he is

Naraiel31 : C. Jaime

Barbli : the pastors here share responsibility for more churches.

Elyna : Wow, thank you. End

Barbli : Go ahead.

Naraiel31 : Jaime just wanted to say that he's been blessed to hear about the welcoming and the thanksgiving attitude they expressed when they saw you.

Zahakiel : Q

Barbli : Yes, they were very friendly.

Barbli : Go ahead, Bro. David.

Zahakiel : Can you explain a little more about what happened with the Nairobi people? I am not clear what the misunderstanding was.

Barbli : It appears that it was about the day of our arrival. I thought that had been arranged, but apparently he was not clear in his understanding. They were clearly not ready to receive us yet and seemed somewhat offended.

Barbli : C Go ahead, Barb

Barbli : Barb: John had asked what day Abraham was coming. I told him in email that it would probably be either Sunday late or Monday and that he could probably be in Nairobi on Monday and/or Tuesday. BUT that Abraham would have to let him know for sure - when he knew.... So, when they were contacted on Tuesday, it was within the time that we had given... but apparently they thought they had to have been given an exact date ahead of time to be 'ready'. End

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Q (4 of them)

Zahakiel : (Thanks for the explanation)

Barbli : Abe: Welcome and go ahead, Bro. Chick

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : 1) Is Pr. Samuel salaried by the conference?
2) Are the 15 churches under the SDA conference?
3) Who owns the properties where those churches meet?
4) Are the people in Nairobi also conference SDA? END.

Barbli : 1) Yes as much as I know at least
2) yes
3) The General Conference
4) I do not know the answer.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Q

Barbli : Go ahead, Bro. Chick

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : What was the connection for the Nairobi group? Or who made the original connection with you? END.

› Lucan has joined the conversation.

Barbli : The connection was that John, from Nairobi, contacted John here. He is the one that Rita knew from some years ago and she referred us to Pastor some time back. It was in that way that he contacted us here at Barb's email address, asking for a visit, books, and whatever.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Oh, he is one who was in touch with ME?

Barbli : Yes, he is that same one. In fact, Isayah thought that he was a con-man. Those are his words. That was his impression.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Ah, and how did you meet up with Pr. Sam?

Barbli : Isayah was the one that was in touch with us by email. Pastor Samuel is Isayah's pastor. Isayah sent an email that was forwarded to us in Uganda and we communicated from there.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : So, Isayah discovered us online?

Barbli : I think that is how it happened, yes

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : OK, thank you for the clarifications.

Barbli : You are welcome.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Q

Barbli : Go ahead.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : How many do you think were present for your sermon? END.

Barbli : I just did a rough overview and I think there were approximately 60 men, women, and youth.

Barbli : Are there any other questions or comments?

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Q

Barbli : Go ahead.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : How did the congregation compare with Kalangala in number? END

Barbli : In what way? Oh, in number?

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Yes.

Barbli : Well, I have been in the Kalangala church only a few times. The composition of the group would be similar. That is: men, women, children, and youth.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Q

Barbli : I never did a count of the Kalangala group that I can remember.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : You mentioned something about money collection or lack thereof; what was that about?

Barbli : There was not a big ado about the collection of money as there usually is in the SDA church. Tithes and offerings were collected, but it was just asked for, done, and finished with no big ado about it.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : (OK, thanks.)

Barbli : You are welcome. Any others?

Elyna : Q

Barbli : Go ahead

Elyna : You mentioned how the Pr. and Isayah received favorably the message, how about the rest of the people?

Barbli : I did not speak with everyone else, but many of the people did come to me, shake my hand, and thank me.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : C

Barbli : Go ahead

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Elyna : (Did you get another translator?)

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : It is likely that Pr. Sam is not ready to "come out," and that is why he wants to take it slow and careful...

Barbli : Actually, Isayah - and sometimes the pastor - translated for me.

Elyna : Ok, thanks.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : He is salaried, AND his advanced degree is probably subsidized by the conference (and he may be attending an Adventist institution)... It will not be easy for him to come out and seek others to follow, having no place to worship and no income. END.

Barbli : No, the pastor's degree is not paid for by the Conference and he is not attending an Adventist university. He is paying for his own education. Pr. Sam was thinking on 'coming out' but really did not comment on that much.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : He must have a good salary to pay for his own advanced degree.

Barbli : He is about to finish his master's degree but does not have enough money to finish his degree.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Q

Barbli : Go ahead

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Do you know what he plans to use the MS degree for?

Barbli : I think it is really to give him status in the church. He said some of his members were more educated than he was.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : C

Barbli : Go ahead

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : If he is thinking along those lines, he is not serious about coming out. END.

Barbli : It is probably true. Like I said, he did not enlarge on his thoughts about coming out. He likely would have some difficulty with that.

Lucan : Q

Barbli : Go ahead, Luke

Lucan : David gave me a brief update on what I've missed... From what I understand, there were two groups; one that didn't end up meeting due to a misunderstanding of scheduling, and one that "received Abe well."

Barbli : Right

Lucan : I thought that Sis. Barb mentioned that the group we had been anticipating a meeting with had not one person who accepted the first angel. Was that another group, or did I misunderstand something somewhere? I thought that the interest had died out, and that's why we were looking at Abe going back.

Barbli : That is another group - the one in Kihihi, Uganda.

Lucan : Right, okay... so who are the other groups? (Or is that detailed in the transcript?)

Barbli : I would say the interest has not died out. There is still a level of interest. I think who the other groups are should be clear in the transcript. Concerning the Kihihi group... they are wanting to evaluate us as we are them, They want to see if we are standing right to see if we can merge, work together. I believe that is their thinking, as I have perceived it. End

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : C

Barbli : Go ahead

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : That is not an encouraging "level of interest," because they are "rich and increased with goods and in need of nothing." They do not accept that YAH has "a church" that they are not in covenant with...

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› Guest_Abraham has left the conversation.
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› Guest_eagle has joined the conversation.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : They are willing to be "independents" and take a stand as if they were God's church qualified to evaluate another independent group in order to see if they can take on that group (CSDA) to work together. END.

› Guest_Abraham has joined the conversation.
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Barbli : That is correct. However, after my insistence...

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : (That is rejection of the message.)

Barbli : when I spoke about the victory, Robert would always say 'but...'. I said to him, "Robert, there is no but"... There is only to believe and to receive. They gave me time to give Pastor's sermon (the one he gave the first night of the feast) which took about 4 hours. They did accept that there was truth to what I saying.
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Barbli : They said that they thought I was right. That is as far as we got. The following day I left. They spoke among themselves, which I could not understand. Edwin says he has written down names and phone numbers of some that accepted the 1st angel. and that may be - I wouldn't be able to judge that.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Are you saying that after the 4 hours of the sermon I gave at the opening of the feast, there were some who agreed?

Barbli : Yes, including Robert and John. This was a change of mind. They said they agreed anyway. Again they were speaking among themselves, but from what Edwin told me there was agreement with me.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Oh, then it is hard to really know what "interest" there is.

Barbli : That is correct.

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : C

Barbli : Go ahead

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : If they were REALLY "interested" and hungry for truth, and IF they saw themselves in need of the victory, they would not have allowed you to go away until they got it. I say they may have been CONVICTED but NOT convinced. END.

Barbli : Probably

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : (These are terribly hard times for evangelism--a dark day indeed.)

Barbli : Is there anything else?

Guest_greenhorizon : (Yah Bless all of you )

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Zahakiel : I don't have any questions at this time... but if I think of any I will email you.

Barbli : Ok, I will turn the meeting back over to David then.

Zahakiel : Well, all we have left is the closing. Will you offer a prayer, pastor?

Pastor_Chick_CSDA_7 : Let us close... Dear Heavenly Father. We thank You for the truth as it is in YAHSHUA. No other group, no other "church," no other tribe, no other movement has this "truth as it is in YAHSHUA." We have a grand responsibility in this world. Father help us to find a way, secure the resources, and finish the work of inviting Your children to the final hour in Your vineyard. Bless our Sabbath rest according to Your good pleasure, and send Your angels ahead of Br. Abe to guide him safely home. In YAHSHUA's holy name, AMEN!
Zahakiel : Amen
Guest_Peter : Amen
Barbli : Amen
Adriel : Amen
Guest_Daphna : Amen
Guest_eagle : Amen.
Elyna : Amen
Naraiel31 : Amen
Guest_Abraham : Amen