Happy Sabbath, and Welcome to The Feast!
Day 7 Lessons on Faith Creation Vs. Evolution
Guest_Barb19217 : Sabbath blessings to all
Zahakiel : Hello
Happy Sabbath.Guest_Barb19217 : Is everyone here?
Zahakiel : Yes
Lucan : Yes
Guest_Adriel : yes
Guest_Elyna : Yes.
Guest_Pastor_Chick : Here.
Guest_Barb19217 : Welcome
This evening we will review the chapter titled Creation VS Evolution. Pastor Chick will add comments as he is inspired to do so. Let us pray. Bro. David, will you open with prayer?Zahakiel : All right. Almighty and loving Father in Heaven, We thank you for the blessing of your Sabbath day. We thank you for the double blessing of this Sabbath, which is also a sacred day during the Feast of Tabernacles. We ask that your spirit be poured out upon us in double measure and in fact "without limit," as we do the works of omnipotence on the earth. May our faith always match your promises and may your infinite wisdom guide the study, and our discussion, during this meeting. We ask this in the name of your Son, Yahshua. Amen.
Guest_Pastor_Chick : Amen.
Lucan : Amen
Guest_Barb19217 : Amen
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Guest_Elyna : Amen.
Guest_Daphna : Amen
Guest_victoria : Amen
Guest_eagle : Amen.
Guest_Giselle : Amen,
Guest_Barb19217 : First, AT Jones asks us to look at evolution, as described by a chief evolutionist in AT Jones' day. He tells us to look at evolution and see if we are evolutionists. We are NOT evolutionists, however, it behooves us to look at what it is, to make this examination of ourselves, to see if we have any lingering thoughts or experiences (that we have not yet recognized) that are evolutionary, and if we do, eliminate them.
First description: “Evolution is the theory that represents the course of the world as a gradual transition from the indeterminate to the determinate, from the uniform to the varied, and which assumes the cause of these processes to be immanent in the world itself that is to be thus transformed.” “Evolution is thus almost synonymous with progress. It is a transition from the lower to the higher, from the worse to the better. Thus progress points to an increased value in existence, as judged by our feelings.”
Three points being made here are: 1. Evolution represents the course of the world as a gradual process from the lower to the higher. 2. The world becomes better by itself and this improvement is caused by itself (the world) 3. The way a person in the world can know he/she has become better is because of 'feeling' better.
Guest_Pastor_Chick : C
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead
Guest_Pastor_Chick : What we see in the world today whether it is in the educational system, scientific systems, medical system, political system, or religious disciplines is the philosophy of evolution at the core. END.
Guest_Barb19217 : yes. Anyone who has had a gradual improvement, if that improvement was caused by oneself, and if progress has been measured by one's feelings, that means that person has been an evolutionist.
Second description: "The hypothesis of evolution aims at answering a number of questions respecting the beginning, or genesis, of things.” It “helps to restore the ancient sentiment toward nature as our parent, and the source of our life.” When AT Jones wrote this, there was a 'new science of geology' which instituted the conception of vast and unimaginable periods of time in the past history of our globe. These vast and unimaginable periods, “is the indispensable basis for understanding man’s origin” in the process of evolution. Evolutionists believe that progress HAS been made through these vast and unimaginable periods of time and that this process occurred as described below: It was through many ups and downs. There have been many times of great beauty and symmetry; then there would come a cataclysm, or an eruption, and all would go to pieces, as it were. Again the process would start from that condition of things, and build up again. Many, many times this process has been gone through; and that is the process of evolution — the transition from the lower to a higher, from the worse to the better.
If any have been having this experience; If the process of your progress has been from the worse to the better; If acquiring the power to do the good works of Yah, has been through “many ups and downs”; If it has appeared sometimes that you had apparently made great progress, that you were doing well, and that everything was nice and pleasant; and then, without a moment’s warning there would come a cataclysm, or an eruption, and all was spoiled. And in spite of all the ups and downs, you always made another effort: and as you look back you can mark some progress, you think, as judged by your feelings; Then your experience has been that of an evolutionist.
Third description of evolution: “Evolution, so far as it goes, looks upon matter as eternal.” “The notion of creation is eliminated from those regions of existence to which it is applied.” “It is clear that the doctrine of evolution is directly antagonistic to that of creation. The idea of evolution, as applied to the formation of the world as a whole, is opposed to that of a direct creative volition.” In other words, evolutionists believe that the world came into existence, by itself. The substance was already here beforehand - i.e. matter is eternal. If anyone believes that the world came into existence by itself, that it was NOT created, that person is an evolutionist.
Fourth description of evolution: Theistic evolution, believes that, God started the thing, whenever that was; but since that, it has been going on of itself. He started it, and after that it was able of itself to accomplish all that has been done. This may look like part evolution and part creation, but it is evolution only; because there is no halfway ground between creation and evolution. This is the same as believing that we must have God forgive our sins, start us on the way; but after that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Accordingly, they do fear, and they do tremble, all the time; but they do not work out any salvation, because they do not have God constantly working in them, “both to will and to do of His good pleasure.” Phil.2:12, 13. If anyone has believed Yah forgave their sins and now they must make their own salvation, they have experienced this form of evolution. In Heb. 11:3 it is recorded that it is through faith that we understand that the worlds were framed — put together, arranged, built — “by the Word of God: so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” The earth which we have was not made of rocks; men were not made of monkeys, apes, and “the missing link;” and apes and monkeys and “the missing link” were not made of tad poles; and tadpoles were not made of protoplasm originally away back at the beginning... No! The worlds were “framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” In other words, they were created!
Now let's look more at creation. A question is asked: How much time passed, after He spoke, before the thing was? Was there a week? Were there six long periods of time? What does the Bible say? God said, “Let there be light,” and it was so; "Let there be a firmament", and it was so; and there are many more like this in the creation account. Evolution, even that which recognizes a Creator, holds that indefinite countless ages, or “six long, indefinite periods of time,” passed in the formation of the things which are seen, after He spoke. But that is evolution, not creation: evolution is by long processes. Creation is by the Word spoken. The genuine evolutionist recognizes that creation must be immediate; but he does not believe in immediate action, and therefore does not believe in creation. Remember that creation is immediate, or else it is not creation: if not immediate, it is evolution.
When God speaks, there is in His Word the creative energy to produce the thing which that word pronounces. That is creation; and that Word of God is the same yesterday, and today, and forever; it lives and abides forever. All who believe this are creationists! When Jesus was on earth, He said, “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” The words that Jesus spoke are the words of God. They are creative words.
Yah has spoken “My Word…shall accomplish that which I please.” Now, consider this. Israel had the Bible; they knew the Word of God. They boasted of being the people of the Book, the people of God. They read it; they preached in their synagogues, “My Word... shall accomplish that which I please.” They said, yes, 'the thing ought to be done. We see the necessity of it, and will do it. We will accomplish what it says. Then they did their best to accomplish it. It took them a long while, so long indeed, that they never did it. They knew the Word of God, which said, “It shall accomplish that which I please.” It was spoken thus of the creative power. And though they professed to recognize the creative energy of the Word of God, yet in their own lives they left that all out, and said, We will do it. They looked to themselves for the process which would bring themselves to the point where that word and themselves would agree. Their course was antagonistic to creation - they were evolutionists.
We need to consider our experiences. We need to be sure we are allowing the Word of God to accomplish its purpose, that we are not expecting some process within ourselves will accomplish it. Let us be SURE we believe the promises of Yah. That when He says "“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you" that He has done it, that it is already done! (Not that He will do it sometime in the future). Let us believe when Yahshua says "Thy sins are forgiven", that we ARE forgiven? (NOW) And that when He says "Be ye clean" that we are clean. (NOW) Yah is the same today, yesterday, and forever. Just like when He was creating the earth, whatever He spoke into existence, came into existence immediately, when He speaks to us now, these things are created immediately. We believe in Creation!
Guest_Adriel : Amen!
Guest_Barb19217 : In the second chapter of Ephesians, eighth to tenth verses, we read: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
There will never be any good thing in us, of any kind whatever, from now till the world’s end, except it is created there by the Creator himself, by His Word, which has in it the creative energy. As we look to the Creator, and receive HIS creative Word, “Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly;” we WILL do the good works He has created us to do! We need to pay no attention to good works that are NOT created there (they are not His). The only 'good works' that are truly good are the ones that our Creator has created in us. It is HIS work which is done by creation, not evolution. We are creationists!
Does anyone have comments or thoughts to share?
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : C
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : I was struck by the word IMMEDIATE. That does not agree with any of our senses. What we see and feel often tempt us with deception. The effect of YAH's WORD is immediate. We are made new in the instant of our request. We are MADE NEW...
Guest_Adriel : Amen!
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : and that is IMMEDIATE. END.
Guest_Giselle : Amen.
Guest_Barb19217 : Amen
Zahakiel : C
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Bro. David
Zahakiel : I have little to add to the message of this article, however I would like to emphasize its importance. When I was putting together the articles for the Binary Angel website, it was entirely populated with things that I had written. Of course, occasionally I would get inspiration from a Bible verse, from something I had read in Ellen White or a recent sermon from Pastor "Chick." However, when I found Lessons on Faith and I read it, this chapter in particular so struck me that I replicated it in full on my site, providing little if any commentary. I think that, to this day, this topic, this sermon "Creation vs. Evolution," remains the only such article. It is worth our study, and our complete understanding, because it contains within it the "key" to really accepting the Gospel in a way that no people have before. End.
Guest_Barb19217 : Thank you. Does anyone else have comments or something to share?
Zahakiel : C
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead
Zahakiel : Yes, I think we lost Victoria early on but I hope that Giselle, or her parents, will take the time to go over it with her. It's really something everyone needs
End.Sandiie : q
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : Amen.
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Guest_Giselle : amen.
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead Sandra
Sandiie : has the time changed for the meetings?
Guest_Barb19217 : Oh yes, there was a change, but it was for this Sabbath only. We started one hour early this morning.
Sandiie : ok. Thanks for letting me know.
Guest_Barb19217 : We went over a chapter in the book of Lessons on Faith - Creation vs. Evolution.
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : (We failed to send out a general email announcing that change.)
Guest_Barb19217 : Sorry for that.
Sandiie : I will read the transcript.
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : Please forgive us for that, Sandra.
Guest_eagle : C
Sandiie : happy Sabbath everyone
Guest_Barb19217 : Thank you - and same to you
Guest_Barb19217 : Does anyone else have anything they want to share?
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : Sabbath blessings to you also -- it is good to see you here.
Guest_Adriel : Thank-you Happy Sabbath to you as well.
Guest_Daphna : Happy Sabbath to you
Guest_Adriel : Sheila (had a comment)
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : (Sheila had a "C")
Guest_Barb19217 : Oh, thank you. Sheila, please go ahead.
Guest_eagle : A wonderful inspired study. I was reminded this week while studying the Psalms "For God is the King of all the earth." end
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : C
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Pastor
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : This topic reminds us of the topic we have spoken of several times recently and during this feast and that is FEELINGS. Feelings have NO part to play in our faith. Feelings have no part to play in our salvation. When we believe what the WORD says about us and allow that WORD to do what it says IN us, we are believing in creation, and as such, live up to the faith believed and taught by the CSDA. END.
Guest_Barb19217 : Amen
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Zahakiel : Amen
Guest_Barb19217 : Are there any other comments?
Guest_Peter : C.
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead
Guest_Peter : Even though I was late I do enjoy the reading and I would like to say hello to all, May Yah’s hand continue to lead and direct...
Guest_Pastor_Chick11137 : Glad to see you here!
Guest_Barb19217 : Amen
Guest_Adriel : Amen!
Guest_Peter : his children. Thank you sister Barb for this presentation, it is one that means al lot to me and I will take the time to go over it again. YAH BLESS YOU ALL. END.
Guest_Giselle : (me too
) Guest_Barb19217 : Thanks to Yah for His inspiration
Guest_Adriel : Yah bless you as well.
Guest_Barb19217 : For any who do not know we have a special meeting this afternoon also (afternoon in Uganda - at 5pm) It will be questions and answers. I think that is 9am CST in the US. Are there any other comments?
Guest_Giselle : C.
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Sis. Giselle
Guest_Giselle : Alonzo is telling us in the study that any person who allows any amount of time, from minutes to years between the Word of God and its fulfillment, is equivalent to Evolution. So people may say, I believe God has the power to create things, but they allow minutes and days pass to believe what Yah is telling them thru His word of what Yah can create in them. End
Guest_Barb19217 : Yes, thank you.
Guest_Giselle : Oh.
Guest_Giselle : c.
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead
Guest_Giselle : Like you were saying, matter is eternal, so previous matter is needed to create new matter. (what Evolutionists say) but to create a new creature in Jesus, Yah doesn't need from the old man to create a new one. (a new spiritual man) End.
Guest_Barb19217 : Amen
Guest_eagle : C
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Sheila
Guest_Adriel : Q
Guest_eagle : In relation to what Alonzo said; this is when the "feelings" (emotions) are left behind with the intellectual acceptance of the truth by faith. End
Guest_Barb19217 : yes
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Sis Jody
Guest_Adriel : Alonzo made a statement “This is the same as believing that that we must have God forgive our sins, start us on the way; but after that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling”. The bible does tell us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, so what does it mean by that? End
Guest_Barb19217 : We are to 'work out our own salvation' by cooperating with Yah's work in us. But it is HIS work. If anyone would like to add to that, go ahead.
Zahakiel : C
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead
Zahakiel : What Sis. Barb said is essentially right we do need to remember that some of Paul's writings are strange, even to inspired readers such as Peter. I think some of the difficulty comes from Paul's tendency to write to his audience exclusively. Of course, he did not know we would be mining his letters for doctrine 2000 years later
Many things he wrote were in response to specific incidents, of which we know little except where he says, "I am writing you to address this problem you mentioned." Yahweh does this, however always attempting to hold the balance. If His people are overly focused on mercy, He emphasizes judgment. Where they focus too much on judgment, He speaks of mercy. And so Paul seems there to have been addressing a specific matter, in which the people were not concerned with the more practical aspects of faith, and so he had to remind them "There is work to do in being sanctified." But this should not be understood as running contrary to His own words, in which He speaks of reckoning the self "dead," and that it is Christ who lives through us, who crucified the flesh for His sake. End.Lucan : C
Guest_Adriel : Ok, thanks.
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Bro. Luke
Lucan : We also have an article available about that verse, called "With fear and trembling." <End.>
Guest_Pastor_Chick : Any link available.
Guest_Adriel : Ok, thanks
Lucan : http://csda-adventistchurch.to/Binary/essays/efear.html
Guest_Pastor_Chick : Thanks.
Guest_Barb19217 : Any other comments?
Guest_Pastor_Chick : I am sorry I have been on and off so much this evening. I remembered NOW that I have a Verizon Internet mobile hotspot, so I have changed from Comcast to Verizon, and it appears to be more stable.
Guest_eagle : Q
Guest_Adriel : (Sis Barb?)
Guest_eagle : For Jody
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead Sheila
Guest_Pastor_Chick : (END)
Guest_eagle : Will you be sending this transcript out to
Guest_Adriel : Yes. I'll be sending this transcript out. End
Guest_eagle : OK, thanks.
Guest_Barb19217 : Ok, Pastor, would you close with prayer?
Guest_Pastor_Chick : Let us pray. Dear Father in Heaven, we thank You for this feast that You have called for us. Thank You for the blessing of seeing and talking with our members. Thank You for working through the members to share Your message together. Thank You that we know You, the only true God and YAHSHUA, Your only begotten Son. Thank You that we have been created anew and now live the sinless life of Christ in sinful flesh. We ask that You bless the remainder of this holy Sabbath day and bring us together for the last meeting tomorrow morning. In YAHSHUA's holy name, AMEN!
Guest_Barb19217 : Amen
Guest_Elyna : Amen.
Guest_Daphna : Amen
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Zahakiel : Amen.
Guest_eagle : Amen.
Lucan : Amen
Guest_Giselle : Amen
Guest_eagle : Q
Guest_Barb19217 : Go ahead, Sheila
Guest_eagle : Is everyone invited for tomorrow’s meeting, or just for members. If so what time?
Guest_Adriel : Everyone is invited and it is at 7AM our time
Guest_eagle : Good night all. God bless us all.
Guest_Adriel : God Bless
Guest_Barb19217 : Yah bless
Guest_Elyna : Hasta la manana
Good night to all.