Have a Blessed Feast - Please see room details at http://csda-adventistchurch.to/chat.html
Guest_Adriel : So we'll go ahead and get started.
Bro. Luke would you please open our study with prayer?Lucan : Dear heavenly Father. We thank you for this continuation of the feast of unleavened bread. We ask that our time together prove fruitful to our growing closer to one another and to you, purging us of any remaining leaven. In Yahshua's name we pray, amen.
Zahakiel : Amen.
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Barbli : Amen
Naraiel : Amen
Guest_Daphna11 : Amen
Guest_gadriel : Amen, Amen.
Guest_Adriel : Hello All, welcome to the second day/eve of the Feast of Unleavened bread. I also am grateful to be able to take part in presenting and leading out in these meetings. I have chosen the topic of forgiveness without which none of us could be saved. I’ll be referencing the Two Temples and a sermon Pastor gave in Jan 2001 called “What is Forgiveness?” as well as some personal insights.
LMKBarbli : F
Naraiel : F
Zahakiel : Finished.
Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_gadriel : Finish
Guest_Adriel : Forgiveness
We know that because of Adam’s & Eve’s transgression that death was brought upon all the world. And that through the sacrifice of Christ all shall be made alive. 1 Cor. 15:22. LMK
Barbli : F
Zahakiel : Done
Naraiel : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_Adriel : Forgiveness is made up of two words. For – give or give – for. Yahshua gave His life for our sins. It also could be said fore – give or give before. Yah gave Yahshua and Yahshua agreed to be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8), before we were ever created. LMK
Barbli : F
Lucan : (I'm confused. Why is everyone saying Finished after each sentence?)
Zahakiel : (She is saying "Let Me Know" after each...)
Guest_Adriel : LMK let me know
Lucan : (Oh. Um, okay. Finished with that one.
)Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Naraiel : F
Guest_Adriel : 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ... 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; [Eph. 1:3-4, 7 KJV] LMK
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Barbli : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Naraiel : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Zahakiel : (You can assume I am finished when the others are
)Lucan : (Same.
)Guest_Adriel : ok thanks
Guest_Adriel : “Holy and without blame before Him in love” If we are not holy & without blame before Him we have not accepted his forgiveness.
Let’s look at Col 1:9-14:
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: [Col 1:9-14 KJV]LMK
Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Naraiel : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Barbli : F
Guest_Adriel : This says that we HAVE been delivered from the power of darkness and HAVE been translated into the kingdom of His dear Son! We need faith to believe that, and praise Yah we have been given that also; even the faith of Yahshua.
If we believe this we will instantly step into that forgiveness whereby we are holy and without blame before Him. Amen! LMKGuest_Daphna11 : F
Naraiel : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Barbli : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : Just as we have been forgiven, so we are to forgive others. That is the condition specified in the Lord ’s Prayer. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. [Mat 6:12 KJV]
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. [Luke 11:4 KJV] LMK
Naraiel : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Barbli : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : We must also confess our sin to be cleansed from it .
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [1Jo 1:9 KJV]
We must also repent and be converted.
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them. [Mar 4:12 KJV] LMK
Naraiel : F
Barbli : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : Forgiveness is a gift that must be accepted. Praise Yah that we have accepted it. As the book brings out that one of the ways to unity is forgiveness.
We saw a beautiful example last Sabbath of repentance and one that had asked for forgiveness of the brethren and sisters who this one had hurt by their fall. He was encouraged to walk in that forgiveness that he was given by the brethren and by faith he has chosen to rise with Yahshua and go forward. Halleluyah! LMK
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Barbli : F
Naraiel : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : The insight that I had while thinking about how I was going to present this, and in what way, was that for those of us who follow the Lamb, and who suffer persecution as a result of living righteously whether it is a more extreme case as when Pastor was attacked while he was incarcerated, or something less extreme as the attacks of the enemy through our loved ones ,… LMK
Barbli : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Naraiel : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_Adriel : as was the case in the dramatization we watched the other night, and which we all have experienced in one way or another, and some are still experiencing, is that when we are attacked, whether physically or with painful words, accusations etc, Yahshua in us says to our hearts “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. We have his mind, and His forgiveness. We also have a will and must choose to surrender to that mind in us. LMK
Barbli : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Naraiel : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : Let us remember that 12 … we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. [Eph. 6:12 KJV]
Let us be quick to forgive, whether the person accepts it or not.
I’d like to share a story of forgiveness from a lady named Corrie Ten Boom. Her and her sister where imprisoned in Ravensbruck concentration camp for concealing Jews during the Nazi occupation of Holland. I read this story many years ago and it touched my heart very deeply, as do all the stories I ever hear or read involving forgiveness in action. LMK
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Barbli : F
Naraiel : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : I'll paste the whole story, and just let me know when you've finished.
“It was in a church in Munich that I saw him—a balding, heavyset man in a gray overcoat, a brown felt hat clutched between his hands. People were filing out of the basement room where I had just spoken, moving along the rows of wooden chairs to the door at the rear. It was 1947 and I had come from Holland to defeated Germany with the message that God forgives.
“It was the truth they needed most to hear in that bitter, bombed-out land, and I gave them my favorite mental picture. Maybe because the sea is never far from a Hollander’s mind, I liked to think that that’s where forgiven sins were thrown. ‘When we confess our sins,’ I said, ‘God casts them into the deepest ocean, gone forever.”
( 19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. [Mic 7:19 KJV])
“The solemn faces stared back at me, not quite daring to believe. There were never questions after a talk in Germany in 1947. People stood up in silence, in silence collected their wraps, in silence left the room.
“And that’s when I saw him, working his way forward against the others. One moment I saw the overcoat and the brown hat; the next, a blue uniform and a visored cap with its skull and crossbones. It came back with a rush: the huge room with its harsh overhead lights; the pathetic pile of dresses and shoes in the center of the floor; the shame of walking naked past this man. I could see my sister’s frail form ahead of me, ribs sharp beneath the parchment skin. Betsie, how thin you were!
[Betsie and I had been arrested for concealing Jews in our home during the Nazi occupation of Holland; this man had been a guard at Ravensbruck concentration camp where we were sent.]
“Now he was in front of me, hand thrust out: ‘A fine message, Fräulein! How good it is to know that, as you say, all our sins are at the bottom of the sea!’
“And I, who had spoken so glibly of forgiveness, fumbled in my pocketbook rather than take that hand. He would not remember me, of course—how could he remember one prisoner among those thousands of women?
“But I remembered him and the leather crop swinging from his belt. I was face-to-face with one of my captors and my blood seemed to freeze.
“ ‘You mentioned Ravensbruck in your talk,’ he was saying, ‘I was a guard there.’ No, he did not remember me.
“ ‘But since that time,’ he went on, ‘I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did there, but I would like to hear it from your lips as well. Fräulein,’ again the hand came out—’will you forgive me?’
“And I stood there—I whose sins had again and again to be forgiven—and could not forgive. Betsie had died in that place—could he erase her slow terrible death simply for the asking?
“It could not have been many seconds that he stood there—hand held out—but to me it seemed hours as I wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do.
“For I had to do it—I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injured us. ‘If you do not forgive men their trespasses,’ Jesus says, ‘neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.’
“I knew it not only as a commandment of God, but as a daily experience. Since the end of the war I had had a home in Holland for victims of Nazi brutality. Those who were able to forgive their former enemies were able also to return to the outside world and rebuild their lives, no matter what the physical scars.Those who nursed their bitterness remained invalids. It was as simple and as horrible as that.
“And still I stood there with the coldness clutching my heart. But forgiveness is not an emotion—I knew that too. Forgiveness is an act of the will, and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart. ‘… Help!’ I prayed silently. ‘I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling.’
“And so woodenly, mechanically, I thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me. And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into our joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.
“ ‘I forgive you, brother!’ I cried. ‘With all my heart!’
“For a long moment we grasped each other’s hands, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely, as I did then” end LMK
Zahakiel : Finished
Lucan : Finished
Guest_Pastor_Chick : F
Barbli : F
Guest_Daphna11 : F
Naraiel : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : I too have long since forgiven those who abused me as a child, and who stole my innocence, and also those who through-out the years have been abusive to me. I have also forgiven myself for the horrible things I have done in my ignorance. How can I do other than that when my loving Saviour died a cruel painful death for my sins? And because of His shed blood I have been forgiven? LMK
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Naraiel : F
Barbli : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : I’d like to close with this quote from inspiration:
The Lord forgives our transgressions; He pardons our sins; and when we realize the greatness of His mercy, the boundlessness of His love, we become partakers of the divine nature, and manifest the same tender spirit, compassionate forbearance, mercy, and love, and are ready to forgive others.{13MR 76.1} LMK
Barbli : F
Guest_Pastor_Chick : f
Naraiel : F
Guest_gadriel : Done
Guest_Adriel : Does anyone have anything they would like to add?
Zahakiel : C
Guest_Adriel : Go ahead
Zahakiel : Some years ago, when I was in college... there was a weekly session to which all students were invited, and there would be speakers from, sometimes, all over the world, who would provide lectures and give talks about their areas of expertise.
One week, I attended, and the speaker was a survivor of the Holocaust... and he was talking about his experiences as a prisoner. I later found out that he had written a book, and I found it in the bookstore and bought it. It was quite a dramatic and impressive story of survival under terrible conditions.
However, the book had a very sad ending. Even though this individual had survived, he said that at the end of his ordeal, he looked in a mirror and did not recognize himself. And at that point, he says, he lost his faith in God... because he could not understand how a loving God could allow something like that to happen.
There are many people who have, and do, experience a similar situation, going through some tragedy. And so for me, the story that you shared is particularly inspiring.... because we see such an amazing contrast between those who know Yahshua and those who do not.
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Zahakiel : Those who learn about Him learn what it means to forgive, and that no matter how bad the experiences have been...when we receive forgiveness, and then extend that gift to others, all the tears are wiped away (except for the joyful ones) and the burdens vanish from us, to be buried along with our sins. So, I was also very touched by what you have shared, especially since I am already familiar with some of the stories of those who lived during that time. End.
Guest_Pastor_Chick : C
Guest_Adriel : Amen thank-you for that. Go ahead Pastor
Guest_Pastor_Chick : I do not wish to seem to be pitching cold water on hot coals, but I believe we need a deeper understanding of forgiveness than we may have previously known or understood.
When we are thoroughly immersed in the Father and His Son, sealed for the Heavenly Kingdom, the impulse of forgiveness will not be based on any hint of emotion or any sense of obligation or in order to receive forgiveness for ourselves, or to meet the criteria for entering Heaven. Forgiveness is one shining facet of the gem of LOVE. It springs from a heart gushing with agape and a heart of reconciliation which has ONLY one motive and that to vindicate the Father's character throughout the whole cosmos and yes, that is enough to wipe away every tear of remorse. END.
Naraiel : Amen.
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Barbli : Amen
Guest_gadriel : Amen
Guest_Adriel : I believe that the forgiveness I've given does come from a heart that flows with love to my Father, and I praise Him for inspiring you to make it crystal clear.
Anyone else have a comment?Naraiel : Q.
Guest_Adriel : Go ahead
Naraiel : Sis. Jody, Could you please send me the story to my email, to be translated more accurately? Thank you
Guest_Pastor_Chick : C
Guest_Adriel : (yes) Go ahead
Guest_Pastor_Chick : I would like to clarify something regarding my experience of "persecution" respecting the SDA trademark lawsuit. I experienced the persecution when first I heard of the actions of the GC against our SDA brethren. I carried the weight of guilt for what the GC was doing from the beginning. My burden was lifted somewhat by my repentance (viz, departing from the covenant relationship with the SDA Church) however, the persecution did not cease to exist. I knew that eventually, I would be a prime and significant target of the GC persecution. I prepared for it almost daily for nearly two decades. When I received the complaint against me, the sense of being persecuted did escalate and it really never subsided when I was in the "safety" of Uganda. The physical pain of persecution is really insignificant in comparison to the act of persecuting (the spirit of it) going to jail WAS painful, though, at the same time a manifold blessing. My greatest physical pain was when I was arrested, hand-cuffed, and thrown into the back of the cruiser. The beating in the jail was a "cake-walk" in comparison… the humiliation of incarceration...the daily ridicule... and loneliness of having no visitation...the lack of communication with the brethren... the lack of daily nutrition...etc. ALL of these things are just symptoms of the fruit of persecution. Persecution cannot be easily endured, for it is counter to the love of YAH. The symptoms of persecution are only temporary, and they too will pass. When we live in the Spirit, the flesh is crucified, and only love endures to the end. I love all of my enemies, just as YAH loves Lucifer/the Devil. I pray that my life will somehow vindicate the character of YAH to the degree that some of my persecutors will join me in the Heavenly Kingdom. END.
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Zahakiel : Amen
Naraiel : Amen
Guest_gadriel : Amen, Amen
Barbli : Amen
Guest_Daphna : Amen
Guest_Adriel : Thank-you for sharing that Pastor. Does anyone else have anything to add?
Naraiel : not for now.
Guest_Adriel : Ok, if there are no further comments, Bro David would you please close with prayer?
Zahakiel : All right, let us pray. Almighty and loving Father in Heaven, We thank you for this opportunity to draw near to you, and to one another, by the sharing and discussion of your Word, by the mutual sharing and deepening understanding of your principles... so that each may see, more and more clearly, your heart of love, your boundless forgiveness, and the perfect character of your Son that is formed within us by the power of your Holy Spirit. May each of us be impressed anew with the beauty of the divine nature, that it may consume us fully, so that our lives should be a testimony to all, and an invitation to your Kingdom even to the worst of our enemies. Bless us this night, and for the remainder of the Feast, we ask in the name of your Son, Yahshua. Amen.
Barbli : Amen
Lucan : Amen
Guest_Pastor_Chick : Amen.
Guest_Adriel : Amen
Guest_Daphna : Amen
Naraiel : Amen
Guest_gadriel : Amen, Amen